Help talk:Manual of Style
Weapon article structure I have most commonly seen weapon articles formatted #Overview #Tips #Available modifications #Trivia However, I noticed Noxwyll changed the second header to "Tactics". Nothing recently rewrote the M308 (Payday 2) article using #Performance #Strategies #Available Modifications #Trivia I think at this point we should discuss and come to a consensus on what naming system will be used throughout the weapon articles. I have no preference between "Overview" or "Performance", although Overview seems to be the most commonly used name for the first section of an article throughout the wiki. As for Tips vs Tactics vs Strategies, the latter two are synonymous and I have no preference between them. However, there is a bit of a different connotation between "Tips" and "Tactics/Strategies": I had thrown the tip "Although the M308 is ideal for long-distance kills, keep in mind it has a low ammo reserve and it may be impractical to recover ammo from enemies killed at range" onto the M308 page (common sense, but I figured it was worth noting). I would call this a tip, but it hardly qualifies as a strategy or tactic. Just something to be aware of if we rename the "tips" sections, some tips might no longer have a good place in the article. Some Guy (talk) 23:21, September 11, 2013 (UTC) :My reasoning for changing the format of two articles (AMCAR, and M308) for Payday 2 weapons was all based on the format of the weapon articles for Payday: The Heist. Having worked on several of the weapon articles for the first game a while back, it seemed like a good idea to maintain some consistency since it would appear a majority of articles for Payday's weapons use a "Performance" and "Strategies" (When applicable) section as the general description of the weapon's capabilities. Of course, some also lack an organized format entirely. :Nevertheless, on the subject of something like "Tips vs Tactics vs Strategies"... Yes, the latter two can be synonymous, but if we need to come to a decision on using just one, I don't mind whichever way it goes depending on how others feel. As for tips, generally they feel like smaller tidbits of information that might be fairly obvious. In your own example, it would probably be better to add a new sentence in the performance section noting how "the M308 is not a completely ammunition efficient weapon on its own because it requires precision, and picking up discarded ammunition from law enforcement killed at a distance can be an inconvenience to the player". Just a rough little example of my own, but if somebody wanted, they could trim that down and add it to the performance section, rather than having to add an entirely new dedicated section to smaller tips that are probably more worthwhile to add in the performance section. :Nothing. (talk) 05:41, September 12, 2013 (UTC) ::Tactics. It was renamed from tips to tactics on the heist pages (Shidou did it) so I went along with it. It looks more professional too ;) ::Strategies -> Tactics -> Tips ::It's all the same thing ;). I am for tactics. ::Overview or Performance is also pretty much the same thing. ::I prefer overview since it's the same name in heist pages. ::However I and Shidou prefer the opening section unnamed. ::Noxwyll (talk) 11:38, September 12, 2013 (UTC) :::"Sounds fancier" and "looks more professional" aren't exactly the same thing ;) . As for strategies vs tactics vs tips, it's not all the same thing, as I explained ;) . Also, you're contradicting yourself. :::I hadn't been looking much at the Payday: TH weapon articles and missed the more or less consistent structure there. At this point though it seems like most of the Payday 1 weapon articles are formatted one way and most of the Payday 2 weapon articles are formatted a different way, so there isn't a clear majority (although Payday 2 does have more weapons). My opinion still isn't very strong. :::Well it doesn't seem that we have much of a consensus right now. Hmm. I'll see if Shidou wants to chime in. Some Guy (talk) 20:40, September 12, 2013 (UTC) :::* There is a difference between "strategy" and "tactics."http://www.diffen.com/difference/Strategy_vs_Tactic For weapons, I don't think "strategy" really applies. :::* I renamed "Tips" to "Tactics." Any tip can probably be edited to become a tactic; using the example above ("Although the M308 is ideal for long-distance kills, keep in mind it has a low ammo reserve and it may be impractical to recover ammo from enemies killed at range") could be changed to something along the lines of "When conserving ammunition, avoid killing enemies from long distance; although the M308 has great accuracy, it is often difficult to recover ammunition from distant corpses." (The "low ammo reserve" bit belongs in a separate bullet.) :::* I'd like to have formally written content in the articles if possible. (That reminds me, editorial redundancies like "Keep in mind", "Here is/are", "Note that", "Interestingly", etc. don't belong here; see wikipedia:WP:EDITORIAL.) :::* There isn't really a need to maintain the status quo, so if a newly proposed structure is a clear improvement over the old articles', then we should update the old articles. :::* Although I can't remember the last time I edited a weapon article in detail, I would like to have the lead of weapon articles state in general what the strengths and weaknesses of the weapon are, and a following section go over those in detail. :::* I don't think an "Overview" heading belongs in any article, because an overview is what the lead should be. :::* Wiki headings should be in "sentence case"; see wikipedia:WP:SECTIONCAPS. :::: —Shidou T/ 21:36, September 12, 2013 (UTC)